KAREN:  What year did you go -- was that first training that you went to? 

JOYCE:  I'm trying to think what year it was.  Early '70s, I think. 

KAREN:  Okay. 

JOYCE:  I know there were a basic group of women who worked volunteering for years.  I think we had probably the most stable group in the state, and many of them had worked for years with no pay or anything.  But it was Vera Inga, down at Akhiok, and I was trying to think who was at Old Harbor.  Stella could tell me before.  And Betty Nelson was at Afognak.  And then after the tidal wave, the village moved to Port Lions.  And -- and we -- we stayed on for years.  Nowadays it seems like there's so much turnover in the health business, but... 

KAREN:  Do you wonder why -- have you thought about why the difference? 

JOYCE:  I don't think they are nearly as dedicated as we were.  The fact that we were willing to work without salary because we cared about what we were doing.  Also, it's -- as they told us, it wasn't -- you probably couldn't get a job anywhere else, you're hired for your village, you're not -- not something you can take and go somewhere else and do.  I think that is changing, too, because of the high standards they now have.  But I had so many experiences with serious problems before I actually had formal training.  The doctors had given me very good training in the village.  I -- I bought every medical book I could find and read up on everything that I had been taught.