ROY:  What else might you want to know about the program? 

KAREN:  Well, I was wondering the relationships between the people in terms of, you know, did the nurses and the doctors get some cross-cultural training?  All of a sudden they are working with people from different cultures, different backgrounds, different types of communities, and vice versa. 

ROY:  Uh-hum (affirmative). 

KAREN:  And how that worked. 

ROY:  Yeah.  Well, they did, in a way, first by actual hands-on experience going out there.  Secondly, by interfacing directly with the health aides when they came in. 

And by the way, there grew great comraderies out of that relationship.  Wonderful relations, probably as Walter Johnson and Mary Bolan will tell you, still exist day, you know, years later. 

And also I'm an Alaska Native --

KAREN:  Right. 

ROY:  -- and my boss was an Alaska Native, Jerry Ivey, who I don't know if you've interviewed Gerald Ivey. 

KAREN:  No, I haven't.

ROY:  Gerald Ivey -- this program was run out of a division of Indian Health Service called the Office of Native Affairs.  Strange name, but it was -- it was up high, it was right next to the area director who, at that time, was a doctor by the name of John Lee, who is now, I think, deceased.  A fine man, very open-minded man. 

And while many of his colleagues were clamoring for, you know, this is not a program we want around, you know, heaven forbid, might do us out of jobs as doctors, and Lee would hear none of it.  And -- and he gave strong support for the program. 

Jerry Ivey himself was a Native person from the McGrath area. 

KAREN:  Okay. 

ROY:  And a fellow by the name of Bob Singyke was -- was in charge -- was in charge of another branch under him.  I was in charge of one branch, the health aide program, and Mr. Singyke was in charge of the other branch, which had to do with -- with building Native health board capacities. 

And he worked closely with Native health boards throughout the state to make sure that they became deeply involved in policy development of delivery of health services. 

KAREN:  So what was Gerald Ivey's role? 

ROY:  Gerald Ivey was the director of the Office of Native Affairs, reporting directly to John Lee. 

KAREN:  Okay.  And so the CHAP program was under the Office of Native Affairs? 

ROY:  Yes.  Yes. 

KAREN:  Okay.  And where is he now? 

ROY:  He's here.  He retired.  He lives in Anchorage here with his wife.  And you can catch him when he's not fishing or visiting his wife's Indian family in New Mexico. 

KAREN:  Okay.  Yeah, because I haven't heard his name before.

ROY:  Yeah.  Gerald Ivey.  A fine man.  A brilliant tactician, a brilliant advocate of Native people's drive to assume more of the health services delivery that we were receiving. 

No, he -- when he retired, he retired.  He just -- just decided that he wasn't going to become involved as a consultant or stay involved in the health services at the hospital.  He figured he had done his time, which was like about 25 or 30 years, so I don't blame him. 

KAREN:  Yeah. 

ROY:  But did a very fine job when he was there.