ROY:  The weaknesses, of course, were some of the things I mentioned earlier, the long working hours, the on-call, the low pay, the bad benefits -- no benefits.  Some of the local politics that pervaded.  And these were negatives. 

And the lack of overall money, I guess, to do even more.  We wanted to do more -- the training more quickly, and, you know, bring the level -- bring the education level of the health aides up more quickly than we did. 

It took us a long time to do that -- to do that training.  Training is continuous.  I know that.  Continuing education has to go on in -- in health profession, especially.  And the health aides even today are coming in, I think, at least one week a year for specialized training. 

KAREN:  Right. 

ROY:  Even those that have been trained up, highly trained.
 
Today, some of the health aides and the doctors will tell you they are operating at a level that is at the beginning doctors level, when a doctor first comes out of the medical school and his residency -- and into residency for a while.  Some of these people are operating in a pretty -- in a pretty sophisticated way out there.  Very, very skilled after all these years of experience. 

KAREN:  Right. 

ROY:  Plus the wisdom you get --

KAREN:  Right. 

ROY:  -- that you get with years. 

KAREN:  Right.  It's interesting you say that for some of the health aides, their education level before becoming a health aide may have been minimal.

ROY:  Minimal, yeah.  Uh-hum. 

KAREN:  And how they reconciled that in the training.

ROY:  Well, it happened.  We did it.  And a lot of it is common sense, you know, and a lot of it has to do with the dedication of the trainers and the ability to go back and go over and over again until, you know, we make sure that -- that the health aide has it. 

And -- and it was not a great problem, the lack of education was not a great problem.  We had people out there that had a lot of horse sense, you know. 

KAREN:  Yeah. 

ROY:  They knew the practical side of health delivery.  And they wouldn't be health aides if they didn't have a good sense. 

KAREN:  Right. 

ROY:  So...

KAREN:  It's interesting that it sounds like the success of the program was a lot of hard work by a lot of dedicated people, and why the health aide program got that and it worked and there's other programs that have come and gone, whether it's in health care or in other things. 

ROY:  Uh-hum (affirmative).  Uh-hum. 

KAREN:  And it's interesting why the health aide program has worked. 

ROY:  That was an era when a lot of things worked.  And I think a lot of the people felt a calling to do a good job. 

You remember the old posters that were on the wall, and you're too young to remember this, but they were on the part of the Office of Economic Opportunity, some of these posters would say if -- if you're -- if you're not part of the solution, you must be part of the problem. 

KAREN:  Right.  I know the saying.

ROY:  You are part of the problem.  Yeah.  And so people were kind of, you know, admonished and urged to do their very best and be a contributor to a better society, and as a result, a good work ethic coming out of these, all the folks involved. 

Everyone was young and enthusiastic, too.  The '60s were really a wonderful era.  Young people -- young people speaking their minds, as the song goes, you know. 

KAREN:  Yeah.

ROY:  Were you -- you weren't around in the '60s. 

KAREN:  I was around in part of the '60s. 

ROY:  Oh, okay.