KAREN:  And at the time they didn't have clinics or anything like they do now, right?  What were the conditions? 

ROY:  Very few of them did.  The clinic program was just beginning.  We could only build a few clinics a year.  And we did that.  Only a few clinics came into existence each year.  Later on, the program was -- the clinic program was bolstered.  And now I think it's pretty well saturated. 

KAREN:  Right.  So when you were there, do you remember which villages you built clinics in? 

ROY:  You know, I can't tell you, but there was only a handful a year.  I was not in charge of the clinic building program.  That came out of Jerry Ivey's office. 

KAREN:  Oh, okay. 

ROY:  He worked directly with Dr. Lee on that, and the construction department of Indian Health Service. 

KAREN:  So it was a different pot of money, too, then? 

ROY:  Different pot of money.  Yeah.  Uh-hum. 

KAREN:  All right.  Well, that's good it was a different pot of money --

ROY:  Yeah. 

KAREN:  -- I guess. 

I was also wondering, one of the questions when I talk to health aides that I talk to them about is the communication systems and how they communicated with the doctors and all that.  And I don't know, a lot of the villages, maybe there's one telephone in the whole village.

ROY:  Uh-hum (affirmative).

KAREN:  Way different than what we're used to now.  And how that affected their jobs.  And I don't know if that was factor on your end.

ROY:  It was a factor, big factor. 

Then there were long wave radio, and some UHF stuff when you could do line of sight, but the long wave was unreliable because bad weather, you know, would interfere.  It bounces off the ionosphere. 

And just when you were getting to the vital part of your discussion with the doctor, you got a bunch of crackling going on, you know. 

KAREN:  Uh-hum. 

ROY:  It was tough.  Now telephone systems are much better, satellite telephone systems. 

KAREN:  And now they are also, in some places, using that telemedicine, right?  Video conferencing? 

ROY:  Video conferencing.  Exactly.

KAREN:  I'm sure that was a long ways from anybody's ideas when you were there. 

ROY:  It was around as a dream, you know, but that was it.  Because the health aide was viewed as the eyes and ears of the doctor, you know. 

KAREN:  Uh-hum. 

ROY:  The person with the feet on the ground and at the site, you know.

KAREN:  Yeah.  Well, I find it amazing that they could communicate all the necessary information for a doctor to be able to make a diagnosis without seeing a patient. 

ROY:  Uh-hum (affirmative). 

KAREN:  You know, very talented and skilled people.

ROY:  Yeah.  In many ways, their name belies their skills.  They are really not health aides, they are -- they are primary health care providers --

KAREN:  Right. 

ROY:  -- they have in the village setting.  They are paraprofessional.  And the word health -- the name health aide belies their skills and their -- and their responsibilities and their training.

KAREN:  It's interesting, I haven't ever asked anybody how that name came about.  Do you have any idea? 

ROY:  Yeah.  It was there when I got there. 

KAREN:  I'd have to ask Walt maybe.

ROY:  Yeah, Walter might know. 

KAREN:  I forgot to ask him that.

ROY:  But I would -- you interviewed Walter? 

KAREN:  Uh-hum.

ROY:  I'd definitely get to Jerry Ivey and I'd get to Mary Bolan. 

KAREN:  Okay. 

ROY:  Mary Bolan is a -- is one of the partners in Ken -- in the practice of Kenlein, and they have an office, so you might want to call her.

KAREN:  Practice of Kenlein? 

ROY:  Practice of Kenlein.  K-I-E-N-L -- L-E-I-N, I think.

KAREN:  Okay. 

ROY:  K-E-N-L-E-I-N or L-I-E-N.  Practice of Kenlein.  It's a counseling practice. 

KAREN:  Okay. 

ROY:  It helps -- from what she described to me, it helps people realize their own capacity to solve their problems, and apparently, it's a successful approach to -- to helping people cope. 

She was a professor at the University of Alaska Anchorage for a while, as well.  Worked there for a while. 

KAREN:  Okay. 

ROY:  And she's still here, as far as I know. 

KAREN:  Okay. 

ROY:  But she can give you some of the technical aspects of what happened there. 

KAREN:  Oh, and as a -- as a nurse.

ROY:  Yeah. 

KAREN:  As I said, that's a perspective we haven't addressed yet in any of the interviews.

ROY:  Yeah. 

KAREN:  So... 

ROY:  Also, I think Lavonne Hendricks is still around.

KAREN:  It's a familiar name.

ROY:  Lavonne Hendricks worked for the Norton -- or for the Norton Sound -- yeah, from the Norton Sound Health Corporation, and she was one of the lead trainers there.  She's a Public Health nurse by training, as I recall. 

KAREN:  Okay. 

ROY:  And she's still around.  I think she may live in Kotzebue, but I'm not sure about that.  Ask anybody in Kotzebue, they know her, she's lived up there a long time and they would know if she was there. 

KAREN:  Well, I also have contacts with Norton Sound Health Corporation, and I think --

ROY:  Yeah, they would know where she is. 

KAREN:  Yeah.  Because I've been trying to get out to White Mountain to interview Willa Ashenfelter.

ROY:  Yeah.  I know that name.  Know the person.

KAREN:  Yeah.  So I haven't made it there yet.  That's my next trip.

ROY:  Yeah.  Uh-hum.

KAREN:  And then I'm interviewing Rose Winkleman.

ROY:  Rose Winkleman is a health aide from my era as well. 

KAREN:  And Lillian Walker --

ROY:  Yes. 

KAREN:  -- I'm sure you know.

ROY:  Yes, I do. 

KAREN:  I'm interviewing both of them tomorrow. 

ROY:  Yeah, they can give you a village perspective. 

KAREN:  Yeah.  And I interviewed two women out on Kodiak, Joyce Smith who was from Ouzinkie, and Stella Krumrey from Old Harbor --

ROY:  Yeah. 

KAREN:  -- is a more recent.

ROY:  Yeah. 

KAREN:  But Joyce, she was a health aide before there were health aides.  She was one of those.

ROY:  You will find that there are -- there are some real veterans here.  Still there.  Still working for their people. 

KAREN:  Yeah.