Leo Jackson: Interview Outline: Section 9 People building kayaks, shooting at targets for competition, and tattoos Tape Reference Number: H2002-09-09 Leo Jackson talks with Bill Schneider, Hazel Apok, and Eileen Devinney in Kiana, Alaska on February 28, 2002.

Hazel Apok: People used to build their own kayaks, or --

Leo Jackson: Yeah.

Hazel Apok: -- was there like one person that built it for everybody, or --

Leo Jackson: No. People build a -- build their own.

Hazel Apok: Own. Where did they used to get the materials from?

Leo Jackson: Blankenship's.

Hazel Apok: Yeah.

Leo Jackson: They used to get these tarps, canvas tarps, 10 ounce. And make the frame themselves and cover it up with that canvas, 10-ounce canvas, and use paint, maybe two or three coats of it.

Bill Schneider: Tighten it up?

Leo Jackson: Yeah.

Eileen Devinney: What kind of wood did they use for the frame?

Leo Jackson: Hum?

Eileen Devinney: What kind of wood did they use to make that frame?

Leo Jackson: Oh, spruce. Spruce trees. And of course, they had to dry that too, you know. And make it lighter.

Hazel Apok: So they would have kayak races?

Leo Jackson: They, they used to, yes. They would get their .22s, shotguns or heavier rifles and they'd start shooting.

Hazel Apok: What would they shoot at? Targets? Any kind?

Leo Jackson: Targets, any targets across the river. They make a group, one group here, one group there, to see who wins most points or... They used to have fun, laugh at each other. The elders do that.

Hazel Apok: Was it your mom that had -- have marks on her or tatoos?

Leo Jackson: No.

Hazel Apok: Who was I thinking of that had tattoos?

Leo Jackson: Annie?

Hazel Apok: Yeah, Annie Hasway?

Leo Jackson: Annie Hasway, and who was it, Lucy.

Hazel Apok: Gooden?

Leo Jackson: Gooden.

Hazel Apok: Uh-hum.

Leo Jackson: I don't know, maybe Mulluk - Bob Mulluk's mother.

Hazel Apok: What did they tell about why they used to do that? I mean what do you know about it? I never know.

Leo Jackson: I don't remember. No. Maybe it's like those people down Africa somewhere. Marks -- just mark to recognize who you are.

Hazel Apok: Didn't people used to do that like with their own nets, you know, not the [Inupiaq] -- even the [Inupiaq] would have certain marks to identify who it belonged to.

Leo Jackson: Yeah. My father used to have "I V", or three, three marks.

Bill Schneider: What was the "I V" for?

Leo Jackson: Just a mark.

Bill Schneider: Just a mark?

Hazel Apok: Or just a Roman Numeral.

Leo Jackson: Yeah.

Hazel Apok: I see lots of people with three marks.

Leo Jackson: They do that to paddles, oars, anything - some poles.

Hazel Apok: Sinkers, floaters.

Leo Jackson: Sinkers, floats. And whatever they could.

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