Roger Atoruk: Interview Outline: Section 4 Photo of Nellie Sheldon and Bessie Henry; Maniilaq story Tape Reference Number: H2002-09-07 Roger Atoruk talks with Bill Schneider, Hazel Apok, and Eileen Devinney in Kiana, Alaska on February 27, 2002

Bill Schneider: Point to your mom again.

Roger Atoruk: This is one is my mother.

Bill Schneider: The one on your -- your left, uh-hum.

Roger Atoruk: That's my mother an, uh - did you ever hear about Maniilaq?

Bill Schneider: Yes.

Roger Atoruk: I am an ancestor [Note: Roger means to say descendant] of Maniilaq. That is - my grandfather, William Ward, his -- his uncle is Maniilaq.

Bill Schneider: Hmm.

Roger Atoruk: Just -- just my mother is named after that Maniilaq. He is my mother's grandfather [actually, a great-uncle].

Bill Schneider: Maybe for people who won't know who Maniilaq is, could you tell -- tell us who Maniilaq is, and why he's important.

Roger Atoruk: Maniilaq, he was, from what I heard -- I've heard this from the old-timers, especially from Nellie Coffin, she was close to 100 years old and she had said she had seen Maniilaq. And Maniilaq is my grandfather's uncle. So there's some stories up in the Upper Kobuk. From what I heard, it's that Nelson Greist have some tapes, tapes about old stories told by Robert -- Robert Cleveland, Johnnie Cleveland, and some other elders.

Bill Schneider: But Maniilaq is famous; is that true?

Roger Atoruk: Yeah, Maniilaq is -- they said he's [Translation, asking Hazel: "What's the word for Prophet"]

Hazel Apok: Prophet, yeah.

Roger Atoruk: Prophet.

Hazel Apok: Prophet, yeah.

Roger Atoruk: Prophet.

Hazel Apok: Prophet.

Roger Atoruk: Prophesized. He prophesized a lot of things. Like, long before there was airplanes around here, he prophesized that there -- people will be traveling through the air. They will be traveling through the air. And they will be talking on -- to each other for long -- for long distance on something - like talking. Just like -- like we can talk by telephone now all over the -- all over anywhere, wherever we want to call. And there will be televisions. There will be boats with outboard motors, powered by outboard motors. He prophesized those. And then - now we have 'em. That's Maniilaq.

Bill Schneider: Uh-hum. That's good.

Roger Atoruk: He prophesied, he prophesied those. And he -- there's some couple things that I've known that -- that haven't -- that haven't come to yet, and that's there will be two winters, consecutive winters some day. I don't know when. And there will be so much snow there will be only -- the tree tops will be -- only the tree tops will be seen. And there's two winters.

Another thing is there will be a whale surface up in Ambler. I don't know how that'll happen, but that's what he prophesied. But a lot of things that he prophesied already happened. A lot of things.

He was -- he was not a -- he was not a shaman, from what I heard. He was not a shaman. And from what -- from what my -- my relatives said that he is -- he get -- he get messages from -- from God. Because the shamans couldn't - they -- they wanted to stop him or something, and then they couldn't -- they couldn't get to his soul. They couldn't find his soul. So he was very powerful. So he must have -- so he must have a power from someplace. I don't know from --

Bill Schneider: Yes.

Roger Atoruk: I believe it is from God.

Bill Schneider: Uh-hum.

Hazel Apok: I know I've heard it said that there's different kinds of like what you refer to shaman, there's the kind that can tell the future, you know, and they're strictly that. Didn't he used to have a big rod?

Roger Atoruk: Uh-hum. A pole. He carried that pole all the time they said. Carried it around, and then whenever he was going to stay overnight, he would put up that pole. And there was -- at the end of that pole, there was a piece of a skin, I think.

Hazel Apok: Uh-hum. Uh-hum.

Roger Atoruk: I don't know, maybe that's his antenna.

Hazel Apok: They said that was his tool to speak to -- to God. And then there's those kind that can -- well, Maniilaq - that can look at the future and prophesize. And then there's the kind that'll wish you evil or wish you to die and you will die. Yeah. And there was one other kind that just do chants, I guess. I know there's different kinds, and Maniilaq was one kind of them.

Roger Atoruk: Yeah. There's a lot of stories about this Maniilaq. A lot of stories. But I can't tell you all of them myself. And if I -- if I do -- if I say it wrong, I'll feel sorry about it...

Bill Schneider: No. I think we should stick to what you know.

Roger Atoruk: Yeah.

Bill Schneider: And what you're willing to share publicly.

Roger Atoruk: Yeah. That's what I've heard about Maniilaq.

Bill Schneider: That's -- that's helpful.

Hazel Apok: Didn't Vera start a family tree with Maniilaq?

Roger Atoruk: Yeah, I think somebody started that.

Hazel Apok: She's -- she's got it. We should get it from her. But all - that's where we're all descendants from, Maniilaq.

Roger Atoruk: Uh-hum.

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